On today’s episode, we are talking with creative CEO, Jasmine Haitalani. Jasmine has been a huge part of turning my business into a brand and it’s such an example of how a powerful brand can be profitable. On today’s episode, we are talking about how to stand out as a coach, when to rebrand, and how to use branding as an authenticity tool.
Jasmine Haitalani is the CEO at her creative agency, Highflier Powerhouse where she guides industry leading 6 and 7 figure brands through rebranding and creative direction to stand out in their industry. Her experience ranges from working at Kendra Scott to creating her own powerhouse brand she has today. She is the host of the Becoming the Brand podcast and has two signature offers: The Rebrand Experience and Brand Revenue Lab.
Learn more about Jasmine on Instagram @highflierpowerhouse and at highflierpowerhouse.com.
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Transcript:
EP. 225: Creating Your Brand as a Coach with Jasmine Haitalani, CEO of Highflier Powerhouse
[00:00:00] Taking the time, taking the effort to be more creative, to stand out will bring you so much short and long term results, so much more than trying to copy somebody else’s strategy or trying to copy someone else’s verbiage, trying to copy somebody else’s technique.
My name is Catalina Del Carmen and I’m on a mission to put more cash in the hands of women of color. I’m a wife, mom, amiga, prima, and I happen to run a multiple six figure coaching business. On this show, I share sales and marketing strategies that keep your business simple. Your mindset. Get focused, your bank account big and your impact even bigger.
So if you are on a mission to create generational change and you want to make a lot of money [00:01:00] doing it, welcome to the Latinas Booked Out Podcast.
What is up, y’all? Welcome back to Latina’s Booked Out Podcast. I’m so happy you are here. I hope you are doing well. I am doing so, so well. I know it sounds like I smoke a pack a day, but I am doing really well. I’m actually like not very sick at all. My voice sounds horrible. I’ve been talking a lot. I was at a conference this past weekend.
I was at Mujeron Movement and it was just such an incredible experience. I was a speaker and I really got to share just so much of what I’ve learned in business since I’ve started it. And I just had a wonderful time. Um, I was on the stage [00:02:00] with Sylvia Brands. Which is one of my clients and an incredible confidence coach.
And I was on stage with Sonia Saunders, who she is the founder of Mujeron Movement. So it was just an amazing experience. Definitely check out what both of them are doing. So I talked a lot and I got a little bit of a sore throat, but I feel great. I know I sound bad, but I feel great. That being said, I wanted to make sure I recorded this intro because I have such an incredible.
Today I am getting the chance to interview with my, I don’t know what to call her, designer colleague. Um, she, she’s the person, her agency did my entire rebrand back in 2022. And doing this rebrand with [00:03:00] her really, really elevated the way I showed up in my business, in my marketing. And she is just such a genius when it comes to branding.
I love the way her brain works when it comes to really like showing off your authenticity. in a creative way. Um, she’s just saying she’s so creative. She really is a genius at what she does. So I’m so excited to have her on the show. So let me give you a little breakdown. Jasmine Hetelani is a CEO at creative agency High Flyer Powerhouse, where she guides industry leading Six and seven figure brands through rebranding creative direction.
So they stand out in their industry. Her experience ranges from working at Kendra Scott to creating her own powerhouse brand that she has today. She is the host of [00:04:00] becoming the brand podcast and has two signature offers, the rebrand experience and brand revenue lab. I have had the chance to do. A part to be to do rebrand experience with her and honestly, like there she sets the standard.
She’s just so good at what she does her and her team are. They’re just so good. I don’t know. I don’t want to say that over and over again, but it’s just the truth. So I’m so excited to have Jasmine on the show. She is incredible. And in this conversation, I really just pick her brain. Like, I wanted to pick her brain and ask her, tell me what stand, what makes coaches stand out in the industry?
Tell me what, like, what, why is branding important in her point of view? I asked her all the questions. And we also talked about our experience with it. Being creative and what that looks like in [00:05:00] your brand. So this is going to be an episode I really want you to like listen to because it’s so, so, so valuable.
So take out your pen and paper if you can. And if you’re driving, just make sure to like keep a mental note to come back to the parts that are very valuable to you. All right, y’all. I will see you on the next, actually before we, before I do that, if you enjoy this episode, if you take something away, make sure that you tag both of us, screenshot this episode and let us know that you listened so we can reshare on Instagram.
Okay. All right. I will see you later. Mwah, mwah, mwah. Bye. All right, y’all. Jasmine is here. So I already told you in the intro, but I’m so excited to have Jasmine here on the podcast. I should have had her on a long, long time ago, but she did my rebrand and I just love your brain, Jasmine. Like, I love, love, love your brain.
Okay, before I [00:06:00] get into it, can you just please like give us a little intro. Background, you can start with a little intro. Like, who are you? What do you do? How do you help people? And then I want to learn more about your story. I feel like your branding is so good. And I want to uncover like a lot of questions that I think people might have about you that are like a little deeper.
So I’m excited to get into that first. Tell us about yourself. Who are you? What do you do? How do you help people? And then we’ll get into the questions. I love it. I love the energy already. Okay. Um, so to start off, my name is Jasmine. I am a design agency owner and a creative director, and I help multiple six and seven figure coaches essentially either create an extra hundred K with a rebrand or learn how to convert cold leads in seven days with their brand.
I have my signature offers brand revenue lab, which is my group coaching program. And then my. Signature rebrand [00:07:00] experience, which is our agency’s done for you service. We’ve helped so many people just like uncover their real raw identity through their rebrands cat included. Um, but yeah, that’s kind of how I got started in the industry was through like, that rebrand experience or like the earliest iteration of it.
I remember like, even yeah, Back when I was like a baby agency owner, you were a baby coach, like I just loved kind of the dynamic that we had even before we started working together. Absolutely. I feel the same way. I just love talking like creativity and like fun branding really. And all that stuff. I remember you used to post these like, like brand breakdowns.
You didn’t call it that, but you would like break down the brand. And I loved it. I feel like I would, if I wasn’t a, Coach, I would love to be like a graphic designer and like, get into that because I love, I just love the [00:08:00] industry and I love your work. I don’t, I’m not experienced in that way, but you know, you know, I love this stuff.
I feel like you have a really creative brain though, and you implement that with your coaching and with your marketing and with your offers, like people can see it. Like, I don’t know if it’s just me, but like, I can see that where I think it stems from, like, we both worked in fashion, like, we both work.
Like, I worked at Nordstrom for eight years in retail, retail and like on the floor. Um, but I. I, because it was Nordstrom, I got access to so many like different brands and I worked in, I mean, one, two, three, four, like five departments. And I was the personal stylist brand. I mean, I was this personal style sales manager.
So I, it was just so fun. Yeah. For like I had a team of like 15 people at like 25. Oh my gosh. It was not like the styling. [00:09:00] I just loved, um, I love fashion and I feel like every time I watch your, I see your content, it like gets that bug. Like it gets that creativity juices flowing for me. Um, when I consume your content or when you’re just talking about like the creative side of it, it’s, and, and definitely in my, like it, when I did rebrand with you, I feel like.
It opened up my eyes in so many ways of like, oh my God, like I could, like this, I could like uncover all this in my brand, which I didn’t even think about it like that. I was like, oh, I’m going to get like a really nice website and it’s going to be really cool. Well, I have so many things to say, um, but I will say what we’re going to get back to this guys, but I will say.
I never, I don’t think I ever told you this, but like literally just your like, what is it called? Like form, like the form your rebrand people fill out, like the first form, [00:10:00] just that form like changed my brain. And it like challenge just the form, just the fucking form, just that made me think so differently about my brand and we’ll get into that.
Okay. So stay tuned guys. But I really, before we get too deep into this, I really want to like learn a little bit about you. Tell us, tell us a little bit about what brought you into creative. Direction because I feel like what is that what is called a creative direction to create a sign? Um, what, what got you to be this, like, to me, genius, creative director and really start getting, you know, building brands, like, what got you into that?
Number one. And then the question, my, my, actually, that’s the second question. The first question is how, like, you’re an immigrant. I know you’re an immigrant. You have [00:11:00] curly hair. And I didn’t know this about you in the beginning, so tell us, I want to know about your immigrant experience. I know you came here when you were like 12 or 14 or something like that.
Maybe I’m wrong. Um, tell us about that experience and tell us how it from there to like where you are now. I’m over here, like, holding my laughter, you guys, because I feel like Cat has been waiting for this moment to, like, uncover all the juicy, all the juicy details. So we’ll just, like, we’ll dive into whatever Cat, whatever Cat loves.
So to start off, yes. So I immigrated here from Syria, which for those of you don’t know where Syria is, it’s a really small country in the Middle East. It’s like next to Lebanon and Jordan, but I immigrated here back in 2012. So I was 15 at the time and I grew up in a mixed household. So my mom is Brazilian and my dad is.
Syrian. Um, [00:12:00] and growing up in a mixed household in Syria, one was very uncommon, but we, that, that’s essentially how I got exposed to American culture. Like I watched Disney channel growing up, my mom listened to like all, all the old like R and B music. And so like, I grew up with that. Um, but even in the moment there, like I felt like I, my brand, my brand as a child, like was different.
It didn’t fit in. I wasn’t, um, I wasn’t like into all the typical stuff that other Syrian people were into. Like, I didn’t watch any Arabic TV. I didn’t listen to Arabic music, which is very uncommon. Um, and then I moved to the States. In 2012, and that’s also when I realized like what I knew about American culture from TV from movies from like pop culture, um, was totally different than what the reality was, especially going to like public high school.
Um, and so, but [00:13:00] that’s originally what interested me in, like, the pop culture world of. Just like the U S and then kind of like from there, I, I was supposed to be a pre med. I like, I went through the pre med track. I was supposed to be a doctor, like, did not even think about really like the branding side of all of it.
You be a doctor? Well, like, of course, right. Um, of course, because like immigrant parents, right. Why wouldn’t you be a doctor engineer or what’s the other one like scientists, right. Lawyer, but like, no, it’s funny because I don’t think like my parents had a ton of like pressure for that, but they did want me to just do something that was fulfilling in the sense of and also like very safe when it comes to money a little bit more into my story.
So, like. But one of the reasons I immigrated here was because of the war that happened out in Syria, and we lost everything, [00:14:00] um, and actually my dad, who was a business owner who, you know, my grandfather was a business owner as well. Like, we lost all of that. And so for me, like. It’s funny now. See, like, I didn’t even get to think about it until this moment, but essentially like business would have probably been the most unsafe thing to do.
Not even from just the fact that you’re not going to a traditional nine to five, but like in any moment you could lose everything and not know where to start with that. Um, so I think like for me, was it a brick and mortar business? Yes. Yes. Okay. So we did kind of, um, like, It was, um, mail and more like transportation services.
Yeah. So it was kind of like AUPS service over there. Got it. Got it. And, and so naturally, like all of that fell apart. But coming here, like I, my thought was like, what’s something that was gonna make me a lot of money? Give me really good respect and reputation? ’cause that’s something that matters to me.
Like, I wanted to people to see me as like a big deal. And [00:15:00] like at the time, doctor felt like the most. Kind of like the thing that fit into the box. Specifically, I remember I wanted to do dermatology. I wanted to have my own skin care line. Like, that was my way of like getting creative with it, but that’s kind of how it started as to, okay.
Being a doctor is going to give me the money that I need money. I need to eventually support my family if I needed to. It’s a degree that I can take with me wherever I need to go. And so. Into like college, that’s kind of I majored in biology. I graduated with a degree in biology. So I don’t really have any formal design training, but like, you are crazy.
You and so many people. I feel like so many of my clients too. They’re like. Literally math majors, fucking biology major. I’m not one of you school was hard for me, but that is crazy that you’re like, that’s where you invested so much time, [00:16:00] especially cause I see you as someone so like left part of the brain, right?
Like I see you as this like creative genius. So it’s so, wow. So what the hell were you doing to like exercise your creativity? So, I like drawing, like, I took art classes, but like, it wasn’t formal, like, this was in middle school, like, after school, whatever, you know, where you put your kids somewhere so you don’t have to, like, look after them right away, so essentially, like, I did like drawing on my own, but I think, like, my brain with Marketing and branding didn’t really like start developing until I worked at Kendra Scott halfway through towards like the end of my college years.
And that’s because so I worked as an EMT, worked on an ambulance, and that’s actually what made me realize, like, this is I don’t want to do this life. Like, I don’t want to go into the medical career. I don’t want to do it. [00:17:00] I don’t want to go into the medical field. I started looking up. Just like the industry of like starting your own business.
And I was like, Oh, people can make good money. So I kind of like kept a pin there, but that’s when I applied to Kendra Scott and then eventually became brand marketing manager there. Um, and that’s like what shaped my, like just whole world when it came to how branding applies to real life. Yeah. I could imagine, especially how long ago did you work at Kendra Scott?
Um, since the pandemic. So, like, 2023 years ago. Oh, my God. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I had no idea. It was so fresh. No, it was. Oh, um, so how did that transition? Like my, like your like kind of knowledge about like, so you started learning more about growing a business. I’m sure digital marketing, right? Like so many of us [00:18:00] were like, what are all the ways to make money out here in this new spaces?
But like, how did you, how did you settle? Like, what was the story of your business that you have now? Right? Like, how did it stem from Kendra Scott? Yeah. So, yeah. I remember like starting off, this is like ages ago and I don’t even know if anyone will recall this probably because the people that followed me at the time are now all gone, but I started doing like Instagram audits and I didn’t even I didn’t sell a single one.
I didn’t sell a single one. I did a bunch for free to just like, I thought that that’s what I needed to do to get the knowledge and like get testimonials under my belt. But, I did Instagram audits and at the time I was auditing people based off of, I didn’t call it the brand at the time, but that’s what my feedback was.
I was like, Oh, like I don’t see any of your personnel. And this is when like [00:19:00] Instagram feeds were, were the shit. This is where like captions, like it was a formula, like hook by. So that’s what I was auditing. And slowly I realized, okay, I think like, A lot of my feedback is about something deeper than just like the Instagram caption and just like the picture that they’re posting.
And that’s when I decided like, okay, I think I want to do website design. Because website was kind of like the first impression that people would get from your brand outside of the, um, like outside of your Instagram essentially, right? Like website is the first place that people would go to learn about your service, learn about something else other than whatever caption that you had at the time.
And I was like, okay, I think I want to do website design. And my first offer was like a website design only package. I think it was like 2, 500. Which is [00:20:00] pretty cool. You just were like, I’ll learn how to design a website. You know, I don’t, I’m not even hating on that because I put so much fucking effort into my first website and it was pretty cute.
Like it was good. You should have seen it. You’d be, you would be like, Oh, that’s adorable. Although the whole thing was made on Canva because I wasn’t good at editing on like Squarespace, I think at the time. Yeah. Yeah. But oh my God, that’s so okay. Okay. Tell me more. So yeah, in a way, like I jumped into it, but I saw with, so I started on Squarespace as well.
And I remember like, I was like, there must be something else here that will allow me to get more creative because there are so many things that I wanted to do and Squarespace even 3 years ago was not Squarespace that it is now like templates, things like that. And I. Learned a little bit of like coding, like CSS.
And that’s where I could make like little fun [00:21:00] animations or like, you would be able to like, uh, bring your cursor onto a word and it would change color or like, and so that’s where I kind of started getting more creative. And like, I started advertising that as part of my brand and to like, what makes it different?
And it was like, Oh, we’re able to do all these like little customizations and things like that. Um, so I think, yeah, my first package that I sold was. 2, 000, 2, 500. And that was the, I remember like freaking out that someone was willing to pay me that much money in one sitting. I was like, did I just make like an entire paychecks worth just in like once after one sales call?
Like, are you kidding me? Um, yeah. And it kind of, it kind of went from there. I took two website only clients. And then that’s when I was like, I think branding needs to be involved in this. So, so, so good. I had no idea. That was your story. That’s so, [00:22:00] so cool. I love it. Okay. I want to get into, I mean, this is like perfect segue.
I want to get into your thoughts about branding. I, I really want to pay. I think the word branding just gets thrown around so, so much in different types of things. So there’s website branding and then there’s like, Branding for this and branding for that and like your brand voice and like all these brand words.
And I really, I’m curious, like for you in your, in your agency, like how one, how would you just like, what is branding? Like, how would you answer what is branding? And why do you think it’s so important for specifically coaches? Cause you serve mainly coaches and service providers. So like, what is a brand and.
Why is it important for you as a coach, entrepreneur, you know, service service provider? I’m glad that you asked this question because I feel like [00:23:00] even the definition of branding has evolved in like our industry. Just over the past couple of years that I’ve been a part of it. And I think now more than ever, people are seeing like branding is not just your logos and colors.
It’s really like a presentation of yourself. And the way I would describe branding is like, what is that factor about you that allows you to stand out in your industry, in your niche? If someone else was also a business coach who was serving women of color, like how do you stand out? That is your brand.
And naturally, Is made up of so many different components, which includes like, yes, the visual branding, but also like copy and tone of voice. And, you know, what are like, values of yours and how you kind of display all of that together is really what makes up your brand. And I remember even before we work together on your rebrand, like, and I remember telling you this, that you had.
A [00:24:00] very strong, most of my clients like have strong brands. They just don’t have the strong visuals to yeah. Yeah. 100%. I see that. I think you, I mean, that’s kind of like, that’s why you do what you do. Right. So your gift, because I feel like I, I feel the same way. Like, I, it’s almost like, you know, you have something special, but like, and sometimes it’s literally the branding, right?
Sometimes like that is the thing, but I think working with you in rebrand and, and by the way, can you just really quickly give everyone what’s rebrand when we say it rebrand. Yeah, so we’re usually referring to, like, my rebrand experience service, which is essentially. Branding photoshoot website design all together and like.
All of that tied into both. The vision that the client is wanting and how we want to translate that into the visuals to essentially like overhaul what they have before like a true rebrand, right? [00:25:00] Emphasis. Um, I just wanted to like reiterate that. I know you said that in the beginning, but it’s like, we say it so casually.
So when I experienced rebrand, it really did feel and I think. There you had already helped, you know, a lot of people I know rebrand and create new brands and like, obviously the website’s like one piece of it, but. I feel like I, I worked with you at the perfect time because I, uh, it was just, I mean, not, it’s always the perfect time, but like, it was just so fun to work with you at that time.
Also for my business, because I actually withheld working with you for so long. Like I, I made like 200 K plus. Almost, not almost 300K, 200K, um, before I worked with you and I really, I think because I liked design and I still do, um, I was like, I’m, I’m good with that for a [00:26:00] while, you know? And I kept my business really, really simple purposefully because I, and I actually kept you.
Would you would, I don’t know if you’d hate this story or if you’d love this story in 2021, you know Karina, Karina f Daves? Yeah, she is. She was one of my first clients. It’s in 2021 and she was, she’s, she was the person who said to me, she’s like, this is when she was my client. She was like, cat, you know, I was really stressing about my website and I was like, I need to update it.
It needs to be better. She’s like, but then I looked like yours and it wasn’t good. So I was like, if she. Speaking this so much money, I guess it’s okay if I can just keep selling and like, I don’t want to brand that as like the way to do it. Um, although I do think that like simplifying the fuck out of your business and like not thinking about, you know, I think learning how to sell is important.
And [00:27:00] I don’t think that branding personally, you tell me actually, I would love to know your thoughts if you disagree, but I don’t think branding like in, for the, if we’re talking foundational, like. Foundational selling and marketing. Um, I don’t know, at least under 30 K even, right? Like the branding is not going to help you learn how to sell itself.
Like you got to learn how to sell and then the branding is going to like ignite it. Right. Put it on fire. Um, But that was kind of like, like, and I wanted to play with that so long and I’ll tell you why. Well, and this is not you to everybody because I spent so much fucking time on Canva making no money for so long that I, like, had to, like, learn practice to constraint.
For me to just be like, let me let everything look like shit, even though it wasn’t, didn’t really look like shit that bad, but kind of, um, and let me just see how, [00:28:00] like, let me test this for myself. And when I did, and I just focused on selling and marketing, it helped me really blow up my business. But I will say that once, you know, once I could kind of proved it to myself that I knew how to sell coaching.
I, I don’t know. I don’t know where the fuck my brand would be right now if I didn’t work with you. Like, I think I, I would have, like, I’m trying to think of what I would have done if I didn’t invest like the big chunk of money to work with you. Um, I’m sure it’s bigger now. Um, but. It’s a lot of money, you know, it’s a lot of money, right?
And when you’re investing that much, you’re, it just feels like this really big gamble. Cause especially for someone like me, who was like, but I’ve made 200 K without it. Right. So it’s like, do I really, like, is it really going to make that big of a difference? And I think there’s a point in your business where like, And [00:29:00] I personally think it’s like very clear.
It’s like when you know that it’s time to level the fuck up, like level the fuck up, then like, like, it’s time to like actually step into that identity and like kind of unleash. I think it’s a couple things. Unleash, like. A new level of authenticity of, like, being able to show who you are as a person 1 be okay with that and be good with that.
And also prepare yourself to be more visible. Right and I think that makes people uncomfortable, but I think it’s so valuable for scaling coaches for coaches who really like, want to double down on their. Their their growth, so I don’t even know what the hell I was getting out with this besides talking up how amazing it was to work with you, but I will say that, like, I had to learn some lessons 1st, but rebrand really working with you.
I should say, [00:30:00] um, really help me identify. What kind of coach do I want to be, like, who, who do I, how, how am I going to actually, like, show up in the world as a leader? Versus like someone who, you know, has their head down coaching. Because that’s what it felt like in for 2021 for me. It was like head down, learn how to do your fucking job, like learn how to do your job.
And then. When the scaling came, that’s when it felt nerve wracking for me, and that is when I decided to work with you. And I feel like working with you just helped me identify what was special about me, um, and special about the work I do. And it made it more clear to me that, like, oh, I guess. I guess I’m not like everyone else, you know, like I guess there is room for me.
So anyways, I don’t know. I fucking love you.
You brought up so many interesting, like, kind of like bullet points that [00:31:00] I want to touch on. Starting off with like, When is the perfect time to rebrand? And I like, even in my own, me being the expert, like I’m not, I don’t tell people to rebrand, like when they’re first starting out to your point, like when you’re first starting out your business, um, as a coach, as a service provider, like to your point, your job is to learn how to sell, how to market yourself without all the bells and whistles, like to your point, like.
Even when you’re getting your first clients, it’s like head down learning how to coach learning how to get results for your own service. So even with that, like, I would say, like, with rebrand anyone under 150 K, like, should not be thinking about custom rebranding at all because you still have. In my eyes, so much work to do towards developing your skill set and for you even to, like, not let your money go down the drain into uncovering, like, what is unique about you and I’m glad you mentioned, like, the onboarding form that we kind of give clients because [00:32:00] it’s, it’s pretty bulky, but to your point, like, anyone that’s starting out would not be able to fill that out with answers that they feel or need.
Clarity on because there’s still so much that they’re still working out with. Um, even if you like don’t have I remember at the time like you had your one on one coaching Um, I think it was already at five figures Like you were very set on like what you do in your one on one coaching who you help like that was you had results you know client testimonials like that’s also such an important part about Knowing your brand can actually work without branding like almost proving that to yourself first and then I think like once you’ve Done a good job at like, building that reputation, building that structure when you’re thinking about scaling it then to the next level.
Like, I remember you rebranded right before show up and lead your mastermind was about to come out. Yes. And so, like, for you. Yeah. So, for you, like, that was. It’s just a moment that your whole business kind of like was starting [00:33:00] to shift. And for that, like I would say is the perfect time to now think of like, okay, what does that next level of myself look like now I’ve proven to people that I can make the money without the branding, without the perfect content, without the perfect Instagram feed.
Like there’s no question about it. All of our clients are able to do that, but then it’s like to your point, like now I have to prove to people like I actually look like the expert because I don’t want people coming onto my page wondering why I charged 10, 000 for coaching and they have to like do deep research before figuring out like, oh, okay.
She has all the stuff to back it up. A hundred, a hundred percent, I think that time, like the, exactly the way you explained it is so true. I think the found having the foundation, the fan, honestly, it’s like the foundational confidence, right? Uh, is, is it’ll just ignite your brand when you’re getting this type of branding.
So this type of brand [00:34:00] experience, um, okay. I want to talk a little bit more. I want to talk a little bit, actually, before we get into cold leads, which I know you’ve talked about a lot in, in, in launching brand revenue lab, that’s what it’s called, right? Um, but before we get into that, I’m curious what your answer is to what makes a coach, since most of my clients are coaches, most of the listeners here are coaches in your eyes, what makes a coach really stand out?
And And I’ll add one more question to this. What makes them stand out to you? And how, like, what do you think people can do to stand out more? Okay. Um, this is a good question because I have been a cold lead in a way to so many people that are in our scene. Circle. And like, I [00:35:00] always think about like, what is that factor that drew me towards wanting to work with them or even just like following somebody listening to their podcast?
Yeah. And I think there’s like two things, um, obviously part of me cannot like hide the visuals, right? Like I need to, there’s some kind of connection there where I see One, what is the effort someone is making towards their visuals? And obviously like, if this is a beginner coach, like I’m not saying, Oh, their visuals suck.
Like not doing that. Right. A lot of it, honestly, for me is what are their concepts and like, what do they stand for in their brand? I think that’s so important. And I think that’s one of the things that I. Like connected with you when kind of like when I came across your account in the like online industry was because we were both saying like at the time, like very bold things we were like, in a way, you have a sense of like being [00:36:00] unapologetic, being very truthful, even the last, um, when you just launched show up and, um, show up real, like even just some of your content talking about, you know, How you can be messy and how you just need to post and like how just being authentic with your community is what matters and like purpose and that kind of thing like that drew me to your lunch, right?
Even as someone who has been part of your audience for such a long time. So I think like. What your beliefs are and how you kind of, like, reflect those beliefs, your coaching concepts, how you market those. I think other than visuals, like, that’s what really stands out to me. Like, what is someone saying?
How are they saying it? Especially right now? Like. Even for me, I coach my clients through this, but everyone else out there could be selling branding and website design, right? Like, but it’s the way that I’m phrasing my own beliefs, my own opinions, my own concepts. Like ultimately that’s what positioned me as an expert.[00:37:00]
That’s what got people to trust me, to pay me so much money. Like, even though. I still have a very small audience size compared to like the size of my business. And so, yeah, like I think it really has to do with how you back up the things that you’re saying and the results that people are able to get from that.
Like, how does, how does your, how do your concepts even like translate inside of your offers in your client’s results? And I think that’s ultimately, that’s something no one else can repeat. Like, cause even if someone is saying the exact same thing that you are. Which I’ve had happen to me like, right, like people copy, but I’m sure people copy you, but it’s ultimately the way it’s ultimately the way that that’s translated throughout your entire business.
Right. And like, people can spot that. And I think that sense of like, even authenticity. People can’t replicate. And I think that’s when you even know someone’s like being fake or like [00:38:00] being a fraud or being a copycat is when like things don’t start to make sense. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred, a hundred percent. Oh, that’s so good.
Um, I just, I love that you said, you said how you market your beliefs. You said that in the middle of that. And I’m like, Oh, that’s really, really, really good. I think I completely agree. Well, first of all, I, I’m just so honored that you said my content was good for my last launch because I just think so highly of you.
Um, so thank you for that. But I, I, I so agree with you. I think it’s like this confidence of like. You know, it’s a belief, like, you know, someone is sharing something that’s like a belief because it’s so authentic and you’re basically saying it’s, it’s, you could smell the fake from a mile away when it’s like the same shit and not saying that like all of your [00:39:00] content is going to be like fucking groundbreaking, but when you are authentically like just being yourself and you’re willing just to say.
Whatever needs to be said or do things in your business the way you want to do them, because that’s what you fucking want. I think it’s so powerful. I love, I love, love, love that. And I think this is perfect because now I want to talk about something that everyone on the call or everyone listening, I mean, is going to laugh at.
So let me tell you something guys. When I really was seriously thinking about working with Jasmine, I went to her website, right? And I was like, so good. And then I was trying to figure out like, okay, how do I work with her? And then it said she didn’t do sales calls. I was offended. I was so offended. I was like, fuck that.
Fine. Don’t take my business. No, don’t remember. I remember that era. This is one. This is my brain [00:40:00] at this time. And I was like, fuck that. Like, who do you think you are? Right? Like all the thoughts. I had all the thoughts at that time. And. Anyway, so I was like, whatever, move on with my life and just keep selling.
And then I like kept going back to your stuff. And then I was like, okay, I kind of do wanna work with her. Let me just DMM her. And I think, like, I DMed you. And I was like, what’s up? I should, I should see what I, what I dmd you. But I, I just remember DMing you and you were so, so sweet. And I think we had, like, liked each other’s stuff at that point.
Like, it wasn’t, like, awkward or anything, um, but I wanted to work, like, I knew I wanted to work with you and I was just so offended by this. Although here’s the thing, something about it, like, now I, like, [00:41:00] 100 percent understand, um, um, you launching brand. Revenue lab and just being so good at cold leads because it’s like you fucking like you are good at cold.
It’s like you made it so hard for people to work with you and you still made a lot of money and I was one of those people. And then when I worked with you, I, I just. I just remember that was such a decision for you probably have a lot to say to this. So I’ll make sure you have you get to get to talk on this.
But I think for me, it was such a lesson of like, when your audience, like, when your person, when your ideal client wants to work with you, like, they’re going to want to work with you. Sure. There’s another side to this conversation, but I just want to like, I think you were one of the first people to like, break my brain in that way of like, well, shit, like, yeah.
I want the rebrand experience. I want this experience and like [00:42:00] all I’m will, like, I just want it. Like your marketing was obviously so fucking good, right? Like it was so good that it got me through this like entire emotional rollercoaster before working with you. So I want to first, I want to, I really want you to share your thoughts about that season in your business.
But I also want to transition to marketing to cold leads and how you became such an expert at it. So tell us a little about the, about the no sales calls in that time of your business. And then also kind of, if you don’t mind, go into like, what did you learn about selling to, to cold leads that time? I’m so glad you brought that up.
I kind of forgot about that. First of all, we, we sit, I do sales calls now just, just to clarify to everybody. That’s so funny. Um, but at the time, and like this made such a good expert, like almost a good, really good brand positioning moment for me in my business now when I didn’t really realize it at the [00:43:00] time, but I almost made, I think like almost my first 300 K was made without sales calls, which is insane.
Fuckin crazy. That’s fuckin crazy. This was a five figure, at least for, you know what I mean? This was a five figure fuckin investment. Yeah, at the time, literally, I remember that, and it was almost like I needed I think remember, I remember when I started off was like, that decision came from, no, my brand needs to be so good.
Like I need to be able to convince people to work with me, even if this wasn’t an option. And it’s so funny because you know what was like the biggest decision off of like making that, like, I don’t want to do sales calls. I just didn’t like them. I just didn’t like them like that was it, that was, it wasn’t anything that it was not that deep.
So I’m like, But I was like, okay, if people are not going to get on a call with me, then I need to make sure everything is [00:44:00] available to them. And it’s so funny that I structured, basically this like project, this done for you service at the time it was like multiple four figures. Um, I structured it as a click to buy, which is insane, but I was like, it, it kind of pushed me to creatively think like, okay, since this is click to buy, what do people need to see?
What does my, how do I need to talk about my clients, my testimonials, my work? Uh, I was showing up like every single day on stories, like nonstop showing behind the scenes and all of that. And um, I, I totally forgot that we never even like had a sales call together now that like you mentioned it. I’m looking at our DMs right now.
That’s why I’m looking. I’m like, hi, I’m interested in working with you. No, you know, what’s funny is this is what I [00:45:00] love about fucking business. Like you were like, I don’t want to do sales calls, but I’m going to make like now my, now I’m going on a mission to like answer every fucking question a person might have.
And like, that’s what I’m going to become good at. And then it’s like, Now that’s like fucking brilliant and genius that you have those skills because you even thought about it that fucking way, like a map. Like, if I can’t imagine having that type of thinking, like, no, I’m what I’m saying is like at that early in my business, if I thought that way.
Launching would be much easier for me right now, , right? Because I’m trying to like explain a lot about my offer ahead of time in my marketing, in my, on my sales page, right? Like, but I, I think that that kind of thought of like, let me help people make a decision without having to talk with me. Like, you [00:46:00] don’t even ask yourself that because.
you’re going to have a sales call. And I think some people can rely on sales calls so much that it can affect their marketing. But the way you just said this was just like, well, I had to get really good at X, Y, Z, because I didn’t do sales calls at that time. And I think we could just lend, like, we could learn something from thinking that way.
I’m like, what if there wasn’t a sales call though? Like, even if you do have sales call, which do recommend having sales calls for the most part, but if you didn’t, what would you have to say in your marketing? And I think it makes sense that you are such a brilliant marketer because you literally like challenged yourself in your, in like your first year of business or a couple, I forget what.
Time. And in your, you know, in your business that was, but you challenged yourself with this like way early on, which makes total sense now because you’re such a brilliant marketer. Yeah. And I think it also [00:47:00] taught me a lot about like who my ideal client really was. What were they willing to do? Because I remember, I think two or three times, like people would email and say like, Oh, then I don’t want to work with you.
And I could have caved. Like it taught me so much about boundaries. It taught me so much about implementing my own policies, like what I wanted to do versus not do. Um, and it’s so funny because it brought me literally like the best clients. Clients that I now, you know, their friends work with me, their clients work with me like it feels so much of my network through like that way and like going into the cold leads conversation.
I think like, that’s what’s important for you to do in your offer. I think. We focus so much on like the people that are in our DMs that are liking our stories that are commenting on our posts. And now a lot of people will just like, observe genuinely, like, observe. And they’re just almost looking for that trigger in your brand for them to say yes, for them to book the call for them to send the application for them to [00:48:00] buy and.
Really a big part of it. And really what we teach in brand revenue lab is that like, how can we create a strong enough brand that can convert somebody. And are you even like addressing all of those concerns and questions from people who aren’t going out of their way to DM you? Hey, is this for me? Hey, I have this question about your program before I buy.
Like, are you Being proactive and thinking ahead of that, so, so, so good. So good. You know, what’s funny is for show up real my last launch, but like a month before launch, um, I was talking with one of my friends and. She was like, Oh, are you going to do sales calls for it? And I was like, like, I just never planned to.
And then once she asked me, I was like, fuck, I didn’t even, I just kind of like assumed and like, like, I just didn’t even think about it. I was, it was just like a hard no because of the price point. [00:49:00] And I, I remember being unsure about it after, after she asked, I was like, fuck, like, should I consider this or la la la.
And. I think an important piece is like, like a takeaway that I want my listeners to really like hear here is that sometimes you have to make the growth decision and like, it doesn’t have to make sense to everyone. It doesn’t have to, it doesn’t need to be cosigned. Sometimes, like, sometimes you just have to trust yourself.
And I think it’s. Fucking brilliant that you like now you have brand revenue lab and it’s literally like so much of the wisdom and that you share. Well, I’m not inside yet, but so much of the of I assume what’s in there you learned from like this decision that. Probably would have a lot of other coaches say like that, that’s not good.
You shouldn’t do that. Right? Like, that’s like the typical answer is like, you should always do [00:50:00] sales calls, which sure, like I would recommend that too, but also like you have to do right by yourself and you have like some decisions are yours to be made. And I, one of my best. Best decision, like all the decisions I make that double my growth are the ones that I make with myself that I’m like, you know what, I’m willing to take the long fucking road and learn this the hard way because this is going to make me better and I feel like that was this for, for you.
So you are brilliant. Like you, you, I, I just, I adore you. I think you’re so good at what you do. And I’m so excited to be working with you again. Um, and yeah, I just, okay, wait, okay. Before though we go, we’re going to wrap up right now. Two tips, like tips that you have to convert cold leads. [00:51:00] Okay. I’m glad you brought this up.
I also want to say like part of me, I feel like me and you can have the same stubbornness when we want to do something. We’re like, I don’t care what it takes. I don’t care if my business burns. You have the same energy on that. Yeah. I’m willing to sacrifice it all. So that was my like thought process with the sales calls.
So advice with cold leads one. Be like, taking the time, taking the effort to be more creative to stand out will bring you so much short and long term results so much more than trying to copy somebody else’s strategy or trying to copy someone else’s verbiage, trying to copy somebody else’s technique. So that’s number 1 to if you are worried about.
Saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing. Like this goes back into even like the sales call conversation. My thought is like, There’s always a time to fix things, but it’s worth the risk if that could bring you the [00:52:00] result that you are looking for, or like, even to your point, like you got really messy and like did the show up real your own way and it got you the best launch results from that is crazy.
And so I didn’t want to get coached on it. Like I was like, I don’t want to get coached on this. It’s me like decisions made, right? Like we’re doing it and I’m willing to put in all of the effort to making it work. Yeah. And I think like, in a way there needs to be a little bit of that when you’re trying to make yourself stand out, which is essentially what cold leads are looking for.
Cold leads are literally looking for that differentiating factor. That’s what gets people to follow, to listen to your podcast, to join your email list, to buy from you, right? It’s like, they just want to trust right off the bat that this is something different that they haven’t seen before, because that’s what makes them take immediate action.
So effing good. Okay, you guys, if you want more of Jasmine, you can have more. You literally, she has a [00:53:00] lot of places you can go to have more of this genius. Um, tell us, well, first tell us. Where to find you and include your podcast. Where should people like go to learn more about you? So I’m @highflierpowerhouse on Instagram and our website is highflierpowerhouse.com. Plus, Becoming the Brand is my podcast where you can get more free brand content.
Thank you so much, Cat and get on my email list. Yes. But thank you so much, Cat. Thank you. I love this. I adore you. Okay. I’ll see you later.
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