In this conversation, Maggie Reyes and Cat talk about coaching, marriage, and hyper-independence. Maggie shares her perspective on what makes a quality coach, hyper-independence and the struggle to allow yourself to be taken care of. In this conversation, Maggie Reyes discusses the challenges of accepting help and support in relationships.

Maggie explains that our society values independence and self-reliance, which can make it difficult to ask for and receive assistance. She shares insights on making a marriage work, including maintaining a loving detachment, viewing challenges as a team, and regularly reassessing the reasons for staying together.

Visit Maggie at https://maggiereyes.com/

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Follow @catdelcarmen and @showuprealpodcast on Instagram.

Learn more at catdelcarmen.com.

Transcript:

[00:00:00] My name is Catalina Del Carmen and I am a wife, mother of two, daughter of immigrants and rule breaking business coach for women of color, coaches, creatives, and service professionals. I spent years trying to figure out the online business game, creating fashion blogs, YouTube channels, Instagram pages, email lists. It’s all of the things with little or nothing to show for it. Now I run a growing multiple six figure coaching business, keeping things radically simple so I could spend more time with my babies than my business inside my programs. Show up real and show up and lead massively. I teach my clients how to build an online community using authentic revenue generating content that doesn’t require them to be everywhere.

[00:01:00] Whether it’s your first four figures in business or six figures in my mastermind, less is more when you are committed to growing your impact and revenue at the same time. In this show, I tell the whole mother effing truth about what it takes to build and scale an online business. I don’t gatekeep. I don’t tell you half the truth. I keep it real and I will challenge you to do it as well. Welcome to show up real podcast.

What is up y’all? Welcome back to show up real. I hope you are doing well. So we, there’s so many things moving behind the scenes and there’s so much I want to share with you on the podcast, but I want to like finish everything, make sure everything’s tight in a bow, before I give you the full scoop. So I’m not gonna tell you all the details yet, but I do [00:02:00] have a video Podcast today that I’m so excited to share with you.

I am speaking with Maggie Reyes. Maggie Reyes is a master certified life coach and modern marriage mentor. She is. I have been, um, let’s see, inside multiple coaching programs with Maggie and when I tell you this woman. She will just break my line of thinking with one question. She is incredibly great coach and she just understands humans really, really well. On top of that, She does amazing work when it comes to relationships, marriage, and overall personal [00:03:00] growth. She helps type A women transform their marriages using feminist, compassionate, and cognitive behavioral approach. She is an author of a book. Best selling book called questions for couples journal with over 3000 four star ratings on Amazon and she’s the host of the marriage life coach podcast ranked in the two two percent globally top two percent globally.

By listen notes, Maggie blends positive psychology, cognitive science, and practical coaching tools to empower women with clarity and confidence in their relationships. When she’s not coaching, she enjoys Formula One racing, Bridgerton, and watching superhero movies with her husband. She is just a great person and so incredibly kind and sweet and smart. [00:04:00] And I know you’re going to love this episode. I really asked her a lot of questions about relationships and marriage and specifically On behalf of my clients, I asked about support from your partner in growing your business. I also, we also got into different types of marriages and how marriage isn’t what it used to be. And we, we, we talk all about this. And I actually, Asked her some personal questions that I just wanted her coaching on because she was on, because I know she’s such a great coach. So I know you will enjoy this episode. Make sure to go find her on Instagram at the Maggie Reyes on her podcast and on her website. And I hope you enjoy this episode. I actually know you will enjoy this episode. I will see you on the other side.

Welcome. Welcome Maggie. Reyes, you know, I think I have told you, [00:05:00] but you are someone, first of all, I knew about you way before. Well, definitely before you knew about me. Um, but when I was, when I met you, I met you at Stacey Baiman’s Mastermind. It was my first really big investment ever. And I, I just knew who you were because I really studied my coaches before I invest in them deeply and then study their clients and like pretty much know like who their people are. And because you are a Latina, I was like, okay, there’s a Latina in there because that’s how my head works. And, um, I have gotten the chance to get coached by you many times. I’ve seen you coach. I’ve seen you get coached. Um, and I’ve just been a part of your space a good amount of times and you’re such a blessing and you’re so brilliant and you, [00:06:00] you’re coaching every time I get coached by you. It is It makes me so uncomfortable in the best way, like in the best way. And you’re just in a phenomenal coach. I mean, high quality coach. And I think that a lot of people are not used to that and don’t even know what high quality coaching is. Is to be honest in the coaching industry And I just want to start by saying that because like we don’t have just a regular Schmegular person not that anybody everyone else is regular schmegular But I just think so highly of you. I think so highly of you. So welcome To show up real podcast, Maggie,

let’s show up real. So I’m going to show up real. And I’m going to say that really means everything to me because when I was starting out, it was my dream to be a really good coach. Like some people, their dream is like make a million dollars, which [00:07:00] is nothing’s wrong with that. Like, right. But my dream was to be a really good coach. And. So that means everything to me. Like if everybody listening, it’s literally my dream come true for someone to like say that to me. And the other day I was thinking about how much continuing education I’ve done and how much I’ve studied like, like to create the result that those words would come out of your mouth. I was like, I’ve missed family barbecues and events and things because I’ve been, you know, with my head in books and and doing homework and doing practicums like all these different things. So I’m, I’m deeply grateful. And I own it with, with humility, like with, with, it’s a skill that a person who’s committed to building can build. Right. I’m, I’m both like special and unspecial. Does that make sense? Right. So thank you. To me, you’re special.

So I, [00:08:00] I want to talk definitely relationships. I want to talk marriage. I have, like, honestly, I just feel super. Excited just to ask you anything I want. Um, but I also want to talk business and, um, I want to talk about some of that first. So let’s, let’s dive in. I want to start, let’s actually start with business a little bit because I want to tell the story of, um, It was really a breakthrough moment in my life. Why am I feeling like crying? Whoa. Cause we’re real here. Yeah. Cause we’re real. So here’s the deal y’all. There is a moment in my life that literally changed. It was a breakthrough moment. Like there aren’t many of those in my entire life, but this there’s, there’s a exchange I had with Maggie, um, back in 2021 I believe it was that really changed my life. And I want to tell that story. So [00:09:00] I went, so I signed up to be a part of Stacey Bayman’s Mastermind 200k mastermind. It was such a big investment at that time. That mastermind was 25k and there was always an event and I had just hit I think up my first 100k in business in a very short period of time So I was like on you know There’s a lot moving into my life and I was just learning like I was just learning how to handle it So I go to this mastermind And I got to be honest, before I got there, I was already trying to prep myself that I was just going to be in a very white woman space, um, as a coach for women of color and just a person who just, You know, I, I create spaces for women of color, specifically Latinas from that perspective. Cause that’s how my business kind of started. Um, but when I got there, The first day I remember there were breakout groups and I had, um, uh, I had a coach like in a breakout session and each room, um, had about 10 people, I think it was. And in that room, I went to this mastermind session. sold that I was going to do a group coaching program. So like I knew my vision, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. And I got coached that day in that room. And there was, um, they, she basically was like, no, you should stick with one on one coaching and raise your prices. while you clean things up in your business. It was actually great coaching, but at the time, um, I remember just feeling so, I, I got very emotional in that room. You weren’t in that room, but I got very emotional in that room, especially cause everyone in the room was white, except me and goalie who was right next to me, uh, luckily. And I remember when she was coaching me, It got to the point where my words were something like, actually, I’ll do whatever the hell I want. Cause it’s my business. And I got extremely emotional and goalie. I remember exchange some words goalie, by the way, she’s another amazing coach that is a good friend of mine from, uh, what is the name of her quitter quitter life of a quitter or something. All all, all, I forget. But regardless, I leave that room. It’s the end of the day. I leave that room literally in tears. Uh, my head is telling me I don’t belong here. I want my money back. I’m going to email Stacey. This is not the right place for me. And I just felt so pissed. [00:12:00] And I remember, um, I saw you from a distance and we had already met like a little bit and we talked, I think. Um, I saw you from a distance and everybody was kind of leaving and I remember we locked eyes and you like walked over to me and all you said, you like put your hand on my shoulder or something like that and you said, I don’t know what the problem is. Get what you came for, Kat. Get what you came for. And then you walked off. It was like God spoke to me or something. It was like, it was, it was exactly like that. Like, cause everyone was like leaving and I think they were telling us to leave the room. Um, and that’s all you said. So I go to my room. I cry. I journal. I call my husband. And, um, Then that night we went to dinner and that dinner was mainly women of color. And it w [00:13:00] it was like exactly what I needed. It was like all the women of color in the room at that dinner. And, um, that moment was so life changing to me, Maggie, you don’t understand at that moment, this is where I get emotional because I think, I don’t think people understand the fight you have to have to grow a business. And I think. I mean, all, all business, but specifically in a coaching business, like your job is to grow, like that is the job. Like that’s the job alongside helping people grow. But like, if you’re not growing, nobody’s growing with you, you know? So that moment was just so pivotal to me because it really stood, like it was really a moment for me that meant, um, like you’re [00:14:00] here. You made this decision. No one made you be here. You didn’t say all this. Um, but what I heard is like, no one made you be here. It’s kind of feel, it felt like, okay, it’s time to put your big girl panties on. There’s probably a better phrase to say, but that’s what it felt like. And And I really forced me to, to explore like, okay, are we, there’s, there are many directions I can go, but like, do I at least want to, want to get what I came for? And I’ve heard people say that, right. But from you at that moment, um, especially as like one of the only Latinas there, it was just this special moment for me that really changed so much for me. And I decided to stay and it was such a wonderful like I’m so glad I decided to stay and and Thank you for that. I just want to thank you. Oh

my gosh, you’re so welcome I I don’t know what inspired me in that moment [00:15:00] to say that um, but I think i’m guessing like I was telling, uh, Kat before we started that I’m a feminist marriage coach and so I’m all about people being in their agency and, you know, choosing what they want to get out of, whether it’s a relationship or a professional situation or whatever, and I was like, listen, I don’t know what happened. Like, why is this woman crying? Yeah. Right now. I don’t know. But I do know. That you have agency and you can decide what matters to you and you can decide, you know, as a coach I tell my clients constantly run things through your own discernment, right? Like like as a coach It’s like it’s not about listening to my advice. Maybe I have some advice It could be useful for you to run through your discernment and then decide what you want to do with it Um, but you’re always the expert of your own experience. So from that mindset that I have about that, I was like, listen, whatever is happening, I don’t know what it is, but I know you have the ability to get the thing that’s going to help you [00:16:00] because you’re the one who controls that, that aspect of it is you decide what you take in, what you leave behind, what you use in any situation, right? Even though everyone listens to this podcast, we’re going to talk about a bunch of things Transcribed Take what is most useful to you and leave the rest. A hundred percent.

I want to ask you, what do you believe is a group? Like we talked about coaching and what amazing coach you are. And I gave you, you know, all these praises. I’m curious for you. What is a quality coach to you? Like what is quality coaching? And like, what does that look like in your eyes?

Okay. So. I think we can, um, talk about it from different angles. Mm hmm. I’ll start with this. Um, I think quality coaching is undogmatic. So whatever, you know, modalities you’re trained in or [00:17:00] whatever different practices you use, you’re in the present moment with the person in front of you and when you have a process, if that process isn’t what is most useful, you just check it and you just be with the person in front of you. And so, there’s a famous, there’s a semi famous quote in the therapeutic world, um, I think the person who said it is Stephen Porges, who works with like somatic stuff and stuff like that, and he says, um, safety is the treatment. So in therapy, safety is the treatment. So I read that. And I was like, so what is it in coaching? And I’m like, oh, in coaching, presence is the coaching. That is my, if I had to distill it down to like one thing, it’s like, am I fully present with you in compassionate presence, like in, in loving presence with you. I think you can use any modality and if you’re in loving presence with that person, something good will come of it. So that’s, Um, and then I think, [00:18:00] I mean, what, what is quality coaching? It is, it’s focused on helping you with whatever you want help with in that moment. And I mean, when I studied, uh, I studied with, uh, an amazing feminist coach named Cara Lowenthal. And she has these principles for feminist coaching. And I think all of her principles would apply if I was gonna, if I was gonna look at it, like, it’s non hierarchical. So, um, coaching, right, if we probably look into the background of coaching, there’s like, the coach, like, the teacher, right? There’s the coach, and then there’s the person. Um, and it’s like, it’s non hierarchical. It’s like, we’re two humans.

Yeah.

On this path of life. Um, I love the quote from Ram Dass that we’re walking each other home. It’s like, I learn when I’m coaching, and I also teach when I’m coaching, right? Like, we’re both humans walking each other home, right? Um, so, over time, I’ve developed my own, um, [00:19:00] framework for how I think about my coaching, which I call it Contextual Collaborative Coaching. So, In my opinion, one of the things that is really powerful is when coaching takes into consideration the context that you’re in, whether it’s the physiological context, like if your nervous system is having a response, whether it’s the societal context of like, Oh, you’re telling me as a Latina person that doesn’t have access to generational wealth and a bunch of other things to do this really bold, amazing thing. But guess what? For me, it’s not going to be the same process as it might be for someone else who has a context, right? And even being married. So being married, I have the support of my husband, both the emotional support, but also the financial support, right? Um, so what is the context in which something is happening? And the context, like I said, could be personal and can be like in the world. So it could be, are you tired? Are you hungry? Did something go wrong? It’s like having that presence of mind of what is the context for the [00:20:00] person in this moment, for them in the world and in themselves. I think definitely helps when you’re coaching and then collaborative is that piece of you’re always in your agency Yeah, you you’re that’s something that I think is so important And one of the things I tell my clients like I’m calling number one I walk them through the stress cycle fight flight freeze a piece and I tell them hey Um, this, this thing is going to happen. You’re going to have responses while we’re coaching because you’re human. And just having that awareness that like, we’re having a whole rich human experience. We’re not just exchanging sentences.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that’s my, that’s my answer, but we could talk about

it now. I love it. You know, one thing I tell my clients a lot of, um, Is that the people you’re selling to are just like you because I’m a business coach, right? So it’s like, they’re just like you, they’re your equals. They could school you just as much as you could school them. We all got different life [00:21:00] experiences, right? Like, you know, a mother of five who, you know, I coach. Sure, I could help them with business, but they could probably school me real good on children, right? And that’s what I do. I just, I think it, you know, from a business standpoint, I love looking at it in this like we’re equals because it also helps in selling because then you start the way a lot of what I coached my clients on. Um, because a lot of my clients have this belief that like our community, because a lot of my clients also sell to women of color or people of color or some type of, um, uh, um, Just, yeah, some type of community that means something so deeply to them. And What I tell them is like, okay, if we’re equals from a coaching standpoint, then we’re also equals from a selling standpoint. And the beliefs that you have about yourself, you should also like extend those to the people you’re selling to and not put [00:22:00] them in this like, Oh, Oh, but my community is so like suffering so much because there could be two truths. Sure. Like a hundred percent, there is a hu a hundred percent, but also can we also believe that our community is smart. And intelligent. And can we also believe that they’re worthy of X, Y, Z and in my, I think that’s why, um, being in coaching containers, uh, inside like Stacy’s and, um, like Brooks containers from the life coach school, I’m not certified, but I always found it. So, um, it has always been so inspiring to me because I knew my community so well. So that I never. I, my point of view has always been like, we have to think differently about our community and we have to think in like, if, if we’re allowing these thoughts for [00:23:00] ourselves, then we also have to extend those thoughts and consider that like these things about our people too. Um, and that’s what has helped me really speak to women of color, specifically Latina, specifically who have these deep rooted beliefs that. Like our communities can’t do X, Y, Z, when the reality is like, when I think about first gen people, immigrants, like immigrants is they can do literally anything like they, they’ve already, the feats that they’ve already accomplished is much bigger than the ones that, you know, the, that we work with them with or whatever. So anyways, I’m going on a tangent, but I love this because. It really, I, I completely align with those values and the way you see quality coaching because it should be collaborative. It should be like, I always want my clients to, to feel like, look, I’m there’s, [00:24:00] there’s the coaching and then there’s the strategy, the coaching, let’s coach. And if you want options, here’s some strategy.

But

like, I’m also not the CEO of your business. You know what I mean? That’s your game. And you tell me what direction you want to go and we’ll go that direction.

Yeah, when I’m coaching on marriage stuff, which I’m a marriage coach for everyone listening. I tell them like hey There’s some things we know work and I’m gonna share those things with you. That would be like the strategy, right?

Yeah, yeah

stuff and it’s like there’s some things that we know work research tells us we have evidence, you know evidence based That’s all great But I basically have like this buffet

Where

we have all of these things and if I offer you one thing and that doesn’t resonate for you It’s up to me as the coach to have five other things we could do doesn’t matter Yeah, it’s like I do sometimes a gratitude challenge with my clients and sometimes they’re in such situations where gratitude isn’t really easily accessible Which is like when they need it the most but sometimes they’re like no Like that’s why they think okay [00:25:00] when you’re ready for that, we’ll do that in the meantime. Okay let’s do this other thing Yeah we how about we talk to each other as if we love each other?

Yeah

Okay, wait, can we get into marriage? Let’s do it! I want to make sure to make time for this. Um, okay, so, I have so many questions. I have your book. I bought it a long time ago. Like it was just, I probably in 2021, like right after I met, um, and my husband has done some of it now at this point, we’ve lost it. Cause we’ve, you know, moved it somewhere. I think I know where it is, but we have completed some of the questions. I want to. So

if, if, if you want a book, what is it called? It’s called the questions for couples journal and it’s 400 questions and there’s different categories. So there’s like your goals, your dreams, your values.

Yeah. Yeah.

It’s really, really good. Go buy it. It’s just good to explore with your, with your partner, with your husband.

Yeah.

[00:26:00]

Um, okay. So I want to talk about marriage. I want to talk about like your partner, your husband, wife. Supporting you in your journey. I feel like this is a, Oh yeah. Old topic. Like it’s a very like, you know, we’ve heard this topic a lot, but I want to, I’m just going to put my shit out there.

Okay. Bring it. I’m ready.

I’m just curious. So it’s so funny. I always, I have a really supportive husband. Not, I wouldn’t say like, The supportive husband who’s like, you can do it, cat, like go do whatever. But I have support within, if I need something, I’m always heard. I’m always respected for my requests. And typically, you know, my husband is all like, he respects my requests and, and me. So he usually will like, [00:27:00] you know, if, he can do the thing, he’ll, he’ll let me do the thing, right. Or he’ll take over with the kids. If, if I need that and I ask for it, but I still struggle with this. Like, does he really believe in me?

Ooh.

Not that he has to write, like in the beginning of my business, I made it this whole big thing. Now it’s not this whole big thing, but I think the last. Three years, we’ve done a lot of work in our marriage and, um, we’re just getting better at being partners with each other, um, to each other and healing our own shit and all of that. And I’m just curious, like, do you, do you, like, do you What a good partner. Do good partners believe in their people? And how does that look from the outside?

Okay, let’s dig in. So, it doesn’t make your [00:28:00] partner a bad partner if they have fear.

Mmm.

And them having fear can impact how we would call them, quote unquote, believing in you.

Mmm, that’s so good already. Girl. This is my thing. Um, okay. And I’ve gotten this question a lot and I’ve had to work through it myself in my own, um, situation. So, I’m gonna just kind of start with a summary and then we can talk about different pieces of it. But, um, our partners have fears and goals and wounds and traumas, just like we have fears and goals and wounds and traumas. And sometimes when we’re out there living our dreams, creating a business, doing something, you know, really bold and really scary, we’re going to bump up against their fears and wounds and traumas. And sometimes that looks like or it feels to us on the other side as if they don’t believe. And so [00:29:00] what I want to tell everyone is if like that’s ever happened to you, it’s like, It’s hard for us when we’re creating something from nothing, which any entrepreneur is creating something from nothing. That’s hard. Right? So we’re in the middle of creating something from nothing. And then this person who’s the person we love, the person whose approval we probably care about the most, the person whose thoughts we care about the most is maybe wobbly is maybe not as excited, is maybe worried about their own thing. Especially like.

So my husband also comes from an immigrant family, like, first generation, right? His parents came from Nicaragua, and it’s like, you know, I don’t want to say this for everybody, but people who have been poor, because this also happens to people who are rich. People who are rich are scared of becoming poor, and people who have been poor who have, you know, and have any kind of progress are like, oh, I don’t want to go back to what I, Like I don’t want to see that again. So it’s normal, right? It’s normal to have [00:30:00] that fear. Um, and it’s scary. And so two things I want to say about it. One is when, so I’ll tell you an example of something that happened to me. I had a thing a couple years ago. I was really scared about something that had to do with money. And I remember if I had made less money or if I had invested money, whatever. It was like a money fear. And I went, I turned to my husband who I turned to for so much. Things in all my life and I was basically like comfort me in my fear But what have happened was he also has fear about money and he basically was like no I’m scared too that in a really nice kind He’s a very kind person but basically he couldn’t come for me because he was scared too and that was such a lesson for me that was like Oh wait When I have that fear, he is not the person to turn to.

He has his own process he’s going through. By the way, that doesn’t mean anything bad about your marriage or anything [00:31:00] bad about your life. If I zoom all the way out, one of the things that I try to convey just over and over again to everyone is we live in this hyper individualistic culture That tells us, A, we pull ourselves from our bootstraps all by ourselves, which is the opposite of the truth. And then, B, when we have a partner, the partner has to fill every emotional basket that we have. And I’m always telling you, like, The example I like to use, if you go to the movies, imagine a movie that has, you know, 20 characters. And imagine you’re a favorite actor, you’re a favorite actress. I like to use The Rock, because The Rock is fun. Like, imagine The Rock trying to do every role in the movie. No matter how awesome The Rock is, cause he’s great. That’s pretty much like a fact. I can prove it in a court of law. Right? He can’t do every role in the movie. Like, we should not have him playing Shakespeare. He probably wouldn’t be the best at that role. Right? And so what we do is we put our husbands, our wives, our partners into this [00:32:00] place where it’s like, Oh, you have to be my companion and you have to believe in me and you also have to do this and you also have to do that. And it’s like, wait. What if I turn to Kat? What if I turn to my friends? What if I’m in a mastermind or in a coaching community? If you’re, if you’re a coach or whatever profession you’re in, right? Like, what if I turn to people who are walking the same walk that I have? Like, this way, I know you have a mastermind community. That’s why those communities are so powerful because there’s 15, 20, 30 other people That are going through the same thing. They can relate. No problem. They’re not worried about how you’re going to pay your mortgage. Yeah. Yeah, but your partner right has a different set of worries So my message to everyone is let them off the hook They don’t have to be you know, king or queen of the believers That doesn’t mean we can’t talk to them.

We can’t work through things with them That doesn’t mean we can’t find collaboration and connection with them. But this You Making a litmus [00:33:00] test of how much they believe or not believe. You don’t need that.

So, so good that, you know, I want to ask you around, um, hyper independence, a lot of my clients, including myself have, and this comes up in the coaching a lot, um, where, and this came up for me a lot when I started my business, because when I. quit my job and we figured things out how we could make that work financially. And then I become the person who really isn’t contributing much to the relationship. And that for me at the time, it brought up a lot of wounds. I was raised by a single mom, so it was just, So crazy to me at that time to not, I mean, just the, even if my husband could have asked me the simplest question of like, what did you buy [00:34:00] at Target? Right. And I’d be like, I have to buy things for this house. Like at the time. Oh, I remember. And a lot of my clients deal with this too, because they, they, They struggle with allowing their partner to take care of them and to be generous with them and to take over the finances and really like let go of the reins of like this independence that many of my clients and myself had to grow up with.

How do we start unraveling that like in your experience when We become the, like, when we are the problem, I guess, when we are the problem because we won’t just let our partners take care of us in some way, shape, or form.

Okay, so the first [00:35:00] thing we want to do is we just want to understand that that coping mechanism got us to where we are. Us getting stuff done is how we got to where we are. Us sort of like, no, I’ll do it. Right, got us the promotion, got us the whatever, got us the opportunity, opened the door. So it’s a coping mechanism that has worked really well, and we live in our Western industrialized society where that’s rewarded a lot. Being interdependent, being quote unquote vulnerable, accepting help, right? Even, even politically, right? It’s like, oh people shouldn’t, I’m not saying this. I don’t believe this, but the, the narrative, people shouldn’t be on welfare or people shouldn’t get support.

Yeah.

It’s a narrative in our culture that getting support somehow makes very American capitalistic thing.

So that’s the ocean we swim in. Like, like, am I allowed to get help? Am I allowed? Oh. And can it be easy? And, and can I be supported? And can I be loved? I feel like all of this is very disorienting. Right? So for, for anyone listening, if you’ve ever felt disoriented or [00:36:00] upset or triggered, absolutely makes total sense given the culture that we live in, the ocean that we swim in. I have this too, by the way. I’m not immune to this. So on our honeymoon, my husband went to grab my suitcase and I was like, Wait, no, no, no. I can, I can, I can do that and it’s, it was very heavy, right? You know, uh, my name is Maggie Reyes and I’m an overpacker, right? So, so it was very heavy and he’s like, no, but, but I can do it and I was like, but, but is that okay? Like, does that, does that cause you a discomfort?

Yeah.

Like, like are you, are you sure? And he’s like, he’s like, it’s heavy for you, but it’s light for me. My husband just drops these little truth bombs every now and then. I’m like, what? He’s like, it’s heavy for you, but for me It’s light. So it requires like no effort at all. And for you it requires like all your effort So why didn’t I just carry it for you? And I still remember to this day like, oh, [00:37:00] okay. Okay He could it’s safe. It’s safe for him to help me. So think about the times when you’ve accepted help or Or not, and it hasn’t been safe. Like you accepted the help from a co worker and then they messed up the project. You accepted the help from the whoever and then they double crossed you. You accept, like, there’s times when accepting help has not been safe. And so it is a reprogramming. It is an unlearning of like, oh wait, it’s safe in this context. See, context, we come back to that. In this context and from this person. It’s safe to accept their help. All it takes is practice. It’s practice. It’s like an emotional muscle We a like a muscle we have to work it out all the time and b if we stop working it out We get flabby again, and then we got to work it out all over again

That’s such a good Way to say it. Yeah.

Yeah, because I’ve been married 17 years and still to this day He’ll help me with something like oh, is that okay? [00:38:00]

Like like there’s some places where I accept it and some places where it’s easier and some places where it’s harder Which brings me to the next thing at a very practical level. How do you where do you start? What do you do? My favorite place to start is small So if you were going to go to the gym and you’ve never lifted a weight in your life, you’re not going to start with 200 pounds. That would be crazy and also impossible, you couldn’t lift it. So you start with five and then you go to 10. So same with deconditioning this is like, Oh, can you help me with the dishes? Or, Oh, can you help me with a small thing? And as you get more comfortable and you show your brain, you’re not going to die from receiving help, that it’s safe to receive help, then you can accept. More and more and more and more. So that would be where I would start. And then Receive it. So the next thing we [00:39:00] do is because we’re used to feeling so unsafe things need to be a Particular way and if they’re not that particular very specific way aka our way Then we judge it as wrong, but we judge it as wrong because we feel unsafe Right?

So, with so much compassion for us. This is not about dissing ourselves, because I have all these things too. This is about just seeing it, like, Oh, if I want it a particular way, that’s my way to connect to safety. But if I have this other person do it and then own it, because sometimes we ask for help, but then we still own it. Don’t still own it. Ask all the way. Get the 100 percent help. Don’t get 98%. Then we have to just let it be. And would I, to give you an example of that, I had a client once where And she was doing all the cooking and it was very exhausting and she gave her husband like wacky Tuesday or [00:40:00] something So Tuesday was like his day that he was in charge But she wanted to like micromanage what they were what they would eat and he’s like no to his credit He was like no I’m in charge So this is what we’re having and it took her a while to just be like whatever we have is fine And so it’s okay.

I just want to point these things out because at each stage there’ll be challenges and resistances and nervous system activations, and it’s all okay and normal and human. And we still have to work through it if we want to live in collaboration with someone.

Yeah, no, that makes so much sense. You know what it makes me think of? One thing I did when I became a new mom with my first, I don’t know what made me do this, but, um, I think I was just, I had so many people, I have read so many stories about like new moms being so overwhelmed by like [00:41:00] all of the things that they have to do. That when I had my first son, this was before I was like even coaching.

Um, when I had my first son, I remember vividly telling myself that I have to allow Paul to like bathe the baby by himself. And like Stay the fuck out of it by himself. And I remember telling myself like, if he needs to experience the fear that I experience when you’re alone with the baby and you’re, you’re learning how to do something for the first time. And it’s so valuable for him to learn that, to not only that, but also to have this experience with his son. And for him just to bond in that way, um, and to have the newborn phase as well. I don’t [00:42:00] know what, what, I don’t know why I even was okay with this at that time. Like I, now looking back, I was like, wow, I was so evolved in the way I thought about this.

Um, but I feel like those moments and me just like allowing him to do his thing. without me having to get in it and have a say or it should be this way and it should be that way. And I’m sure I said things like beforehand, but when it’s in action, it’s just like, shut the fuck up. You know, um, that has helped. It was just the best decision because his bond with his kids is so much bigger and he knows how to do things. Like he, he, our entire, like our, you know, how we parent is so interactive between both of us because I have made it a priority to let him be involved. And I say let him because moms just naturally like want to do all the things because they were in our freaking bodies. Like, yeah, of course it makes sense. But the [00:43:00] reality is it’s like, If you want to, I knew I was going to work, be a working mom. So I’m like, I’m going to have to let go of the reins somewhere. I might as well start this with, with, you know, letting go of the reins a little bit. And that’s what it reminds me of. I should probably do that in other areas of our marriage.

Sounds great. You have a great example to follow

yourself. It makes so much sense. It makes so, so much sense. And I love what you said about like taking the baby steps and like doing the five pound thing. I think for my clients, what comes up a lot is the financial help. And if let’s say that like they used to pay for, I don’t know, um, Half of the half of the mortgage. And then when they quit their job, they kind of figure out, you know, they get rid of some debt, they did it and it becomes a financial thing. And the financial part [00:44:00] feels unsafe, which makes sense, right? Because just women generally get themselves historically in, um, a really shitty place when they have bad husbands and no finances to their name. So that part. I understand. What are your thoughts on that? Like, how do you find that middle? Well, you’re probably with the wrong partner, right? Like if, if it’s going to go that way, but I don’t know. I’m curious what your thoughts are. Like, how do you, how do you, how do you kind of let your partner like fully financially support you so that you can go do your thing in business?

I mean, I don’t think there’s one way. is the first thing, right? For everybody it’s going to be slightly different. From the point of view of maintaining your agency and your choices, [00:45:00] I would just ask, you know, you or the person in front of me is like, what do you need in order to feel safe about this? Do you need to have a certain money in the bank that’s yours? Do you need to have a certain, like, do you need to from your corporate career or whatever else you’re doing, do you need to like have something and that’s what can just look different for each person, but like,

Um, and then what are the boundaries around it? Like, oh, okay, you’re starting a business, is it going to be a year, is it going to be two years? It’s like, like, where do you, are there any lines you need to draw? For some people there might be no lines, and for some people it’ll be like, oh, okay. It’s okay like this, in this format, in this way. So I think it’s, it’s, it’s kind of like very, on the one hand, The principle of it is, what do you need to be safe in order to do this? And factually, is it a certain amount in the bank? Is it access to a certain resource? Is it a certain thing? Like it may be, and what I’m saying is everybody’s going to be different because maybe she owns the house that he moved into or that she moved into or [00:46:00] whatever. And it’s like, oh, so this is what I need. It’s like, I need this other thing that, that isn’t necessarily the same. So that’s the overarching question I would ask. And I do think factually, um, our society in the, in the United States specifically has, we’ve had much, many, many, many more instances where it’s been unsafe than when it’s been safe.

Yeah. Yeah.

Where then women are painted into financial corners and then they can’t make, you know, decisions with agency about their, their own wellbeing. And so I think it’s a very legitimate concern that we should address in a very like serious and focused, intentional manner, even if you’re in the best. relationship that’s super collaborative, that you’re in it with each other, that you’re like all that. We still want to like, okay, and this is, this is what I would do. Right.

So good. Um, I want to, I’m curious, this is, this [00:47:00] question is so general, but I just would like to know what you have to say about it. How do you make it work? How do you as a person who’s has had visibility in so many marriages. I imagine you’ve seen a lot of marriages like turn and transform. There’s definitely, I mean, I’ve been married for 10 years. Um, we have two kids, which is the, you know, kids, you know, this, like, they change a lot in marriage. And I think the last, um, Probably the last two years with our second, my husband and I really have come to a place where we’re like, it feels like we finally recently made a decision that like, no, we’re sticking together for us, for you and me. Cause we, we got into a really nasty, nasty time in our marriage last year. And I remember I was like, look, we’re not staying together [00:48:00] for the kids. Like that’s something we’re not going to do. Like. The kids will be fine. Like, they’ll be fine because we’ll be really great co parents. I know that, but like, we’re not doing that. So like, if we want this to work, it has to be like, because we want it to work. I’m curious for you. And I know when I think about what 17 years will look like for me, right. And in my marriage, what do you, what do you think? Like, what are the basic, like, top three, two, two, two. Four things that you gotta practice to make, to keep your marriage, um, a priority, strong.

The first is to zoom out and look at why you married the person in the first place. Honestly, to make it work, you have to decide whether it’s workable or not. And in all the times, you know, [00:49:00] I’ve coached a lot of people where they’ve turned their marriages around and I’ve coached, you know, a bunch of people where with the highest and best outcome was really for them to separate. And if we look at, this is kind of a philosophical thought that I have, so I’m just gonna, I’m gonna take a tangent and then we’ll go back to it. But I think the tangent is relevant here, which is the way we think about marriage has to evolve. The institution, the concept of marriage has always evolved. It used to be a business transaction. We’ve evolved it to be a loving connection. It has evolved always and when it first became an institution, so to speak, a thing that humans did in some kind of measured way, right, that we registered it as In the Bibles, at the churches, and whatever.

When we first started getting married, we would get married at 17 and die at 30. Right. We have expanded our life expectancy to 80, [00:50:00] 90, 100, and we have not thought or evolved our thoughts about what marriage should be, could be, or should not be. Along with this thing that we’ve changed so even as a marriage advocate that helps people have better marriage I’m like if you’re gonna be together, let’s make it good, right? Like that’s number one I’m like, but that doesn’t mean you have to be together forever For some people that’s amazing. That’s great I literally want to die in my husband’s arms if if I’m able to read like I’m in for that But that isn’t necessarily right for everybody And I just think that needs to be talked about more.

It’s like, you could have an amazing marriage that’s 30 years long, and then feel complete with that experience, and then have other relationships, another marriage, whatever it may be. And I just want to normalize talking about that because nobody ever talks about that.

Yeah. No, it makes sense when you, When you, yeah, I mean, it makes sense because marriage is so old. Like the concept of marriage

is

very, very old. [00:51:00]

And we’re like, until death do you part, but now you’re going to live an extra, you know, 40 more years. It’s like, okay, maybe. So anyway, so I just want to zoom out and say, how do you make it work? So For me personally, I can give you my philosophical as a teacher answer, but for me personally, one of the things that helps me make it work is to have that detachment from the relationship itself.

To look at my husband and say, I want his happiness, even if it would impinge upon mine. So it’s like if someday he were to turn to me and say, you know, this just doesn’t make me happy, I’d be like, my heart would be broken, I’d cry for months, the world would be ending, and I would still want that for him. And because I have this detachment, I just show up You With loving care and delight and joy and all of those things not that we don’t have stressors Not that things don’t happen now that we don’t have like the surprise You have to buy a new roof for your insurance all of a sudden you weren’t planning it Like we have all that wacky stuff happen, too and one of the things that I can tell you that that has been our experience is it’s [00:52:00] Me and him against the world like me and him with the stressor versus us against each other That’s key, right?

And if there’s something in the way where you are against each other, then we need to figure out what that is and we need to find out if we can bring you back to being a unit with all the stressors of the world as opposed to being, um, against each other. So detachment, like a loving detachment from, like, do I love this person? Do I want this? Why do I want this? Do I like the reasons that I’m giving myself? Like, I love how you said the kids is not the reason, right? Though you were analyzing what do I want and what is the reason. The kids can’t be the reason. What else, what other reasons could we have? Oh, because we make a great team, because we feel loved, because we feel supported, because it feels amazing. It feels like my sanctuary, right? To me, I think a great marriage feels like you’re in a slumber party every night with like your [00:53:00] favorite person and you’re like, Oh my God, I can’t wait to see you again tomorrow. I wonder what we’re going to get up to, right? Like, like that’s to me the goal. I know several people listening to us right now might not be in that situation, but I want to say that is the goal.

I wouldn’t say I am either. I feel like we’re in a stressful chapter of life. So by the end of the night, we’re like, I’m fucking tired.

Um, but, but I, I think both of us. You know, we see the chapters of life we’re in too. And we, we, you know, we, we try to do the most with what we got in the chapter, if that makes sense.

And within that chapter, you can be each other’s supporters. Like within that chapter, you don’t have to be an additional stressor to your partner and your partner doesn’t have to be an additional stressor to you.

I love that you said that you were like, as long as it’s like you and your partner against the stressor. [00:54:00]

I even like that language because it’s like, Oh yeah, because the stressors are always going to happen. There’s always going to be stressors and it’s like, but it has to be you, you and your partner. Like if you want to make it work, right. You and your partner against the stressor. And I feel like just even thinking about it like that is so, so helpful. It’s so helpful because that, that is, Yeah. I mean, yeah, Paul and I’ve had these talks a lot in the last couple years of like, do we want, I mean, we’ve gotten even real with each other. Like, do we really want this? Like, do you want this? Like, it’s okay. But I think for me and my situation, my husband and I really love the concept of marriage and we’re kind of like a little traditional in that sense where both of us are, We, we have that little dream, that little fairytale of growing old together.

And like, that is exciting to us, you know?

And I would say same, like, [00:55:00] I am super delighted. Like I’m like, the grass is green. I don’t need any other grass. I’m quite happy with the grass I have.

Yeah.

And as a marriage coach, as a, As a person who advocates for healthy relationships, I try to always zoom all the way out to say there’s going to be a group of people where we’re going to like die together. It’s going to be amazing. We’re going to have a hundred years and we’d have a hundred more. Awesome. But there’s a group of people where it’s like, we just have different needs and different desires and different chapters and seasons of life where what we need are different things. And one of the things that I see a lot is what was the decision making paradigm when you got married.

Yes. Yes. I swear by that. Like when I got, I once, I remember till this day and I was young. I was 23, 21 when I met Paul, but at 23 we kind of got back together and then we’ve been married since I [00:56:00] was 23. And when people asked me at that time, why, how did you know he was the one? And I was like, I don’t want, um, and number two, he’s just a really good person. That was my answer at 25.

If you marry a really good person, there’s just exponentially more likely that things will turn out okay no matter what happens.

He’s down. I’m down. We’re kind of both down to do this. And I’ve, even from the beginning, I was just like, It’s, it’s, it’s like an adventure we’re choosing to go on together. It’s not like,

That’s a great mindset.

It’s an adventure we’re choosing to go on together. You, that’s great. Keep that.

Yeah, I, yeah, I should write that down. You should write that down. Let’s go to my husband. I was telepathically sending you, write that down. We’re on an adventure.

But so many people get married because it’s [00:57:00] time, because they’re friends, because all their friend groups got married. And then they, they, they make decisions that really, when you look at it, that’s why I always sort of go carefully on to like, wait. So why do you want to work on this? Um, sometimes I, I ask, depending on the situation, I’ll ask somebody, if you met, if you met them today, would you marry them now? And that answer is so revealing, right? Cause some people are like, of course I would, right? No matter what’s going on, no matter how hard it is like, yeah. And some people are like, probably not. And I’m like, okay. Let’s know that for whatever other things we work on. Yeah.

I, I feel, yeah, I think the beginning is so revealing. Like, why did you, that’s the first thing you said, like, why did you marry them in the first place. And I’ve heard a lot of, I’ve asked people that question and some answers I’m like, Oh, interesting. Like, that’s so interesting. Cause it’s just so different from our, you know, my [00:58:00] experience, but to each their own, to each their own. And. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. Thank you so, so, so much. Where can all the people learn about you and kind of get into your world?

Oh my gosh. The best place to go is my website, maggiereyes.com. And you can find everything, whatever I’m up to there. I also have a podcast. So if you enjoyed hearing us talk about these deep nuance topics, um, it’s called the marriage life coach podcast and you can binge that and I give all kinds of thoughts and guidance.

It’s an easy, you know, like it’s, it’s easy to get and it’s so helpful. I feel like it’s, I need to, now I want to go find it and like bring those things up because I remember using it with our first, like, when we had our first, and now that we have our second, I think we’re due. So, anyways, I appreciate you. Thank you so much for being here. [00:59:00] And go Go to her website right now and get on her email list, um, and listen to her podcast. I’ve listened to your podcast. I love your podcast.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Bye everyone.